Marquis de Sade
The Marquis de Sade was on our list of spirits we were very interested in interviewing, and so we decided to call him in and see what he was about. We had been getting a lot of walk-ins: spirits showing up either to request an interview or even bullying their way into our interviews, and it was getting a little out of hand so we decided to go back to an “invite only” basis for the time being (I guess we’re that hot up there!). And that’s what we did with the Marquis. This turned out to be an epic interview! The longest interview we have done so far, and one of the most fascinating ones too. If you are not familiar with the Marquis de Sade, the term “sadistic” has its origins in his name. He is a French libertine author from the 1700s who took sexual freedom to an extreme, and who wrote graphic novels that involved pornography, bestiality, violence and other extreme graphic thoughts that were of course beyond harsh for his time period. The Marquis was censored and shamed, some of his work, destroyed, and he was incarcerated in prison and in a mental asylum for most of his life. The Marquis presented himself to us as an elegant and flirtatious spirit with a sharp mind and humour, but also very hot-headed and opinionated! He told us how he despises hypocrisy – a term he frequently uses in this interview – and how he has it in for authority figures, especially Napoleon, whom we found out later had sentenced him to death. He spoke to us about freedom of thought, the importance of being authentic and knowing who you are at all times, his sometimes radical views on politics, the BDSM movement, Pasolini, how religion has denatured our views about sex, and of course, sadism. We loved his no-holds-barred sense of humour and very direct, honest answers. He loves to tease but also debate and argue – he also loves to shock still, or go where we least expect with his answers. We loved him so much, we called him in twice! The first part of the interview is our regular questionnaire, while the second part focuses more on his opinions, philosophy and understanding his personality. We hope you will enjoy this one as much as we did!
Mimi: So I just mockingly asked him if he was going to hurt me, and he said, “Don’t be shrewd.” What does “shrewd” mean?
Alison: Shrewd is “cunning”?
Mimi: Ok…what does “cunning” mean? French girl here, sorry.
Alison: It’s when you know what’s gonna happen before it happens, therefore you plan for it.
Mimi: Ooooooh! ok!
Alison: I think that would be the best way to describe it.
Mimi: Ok! Well I’m getting a really gentleman fellow, very high society…elegant…
Alison: That’s him.
Mimi: Yes, and very calm.
Alison: Very high society yeah, I would call him gentile.
Mimi: Perfect word for him, yeah.
Marquis de Sade: Thank you.
Alison: He didn’t get a lot of compliments from his peers, I think! [Laughs]
Mimi: He’s getting a lot of love and attention now, he’s liking that. Ok! I don’t know much about him, only that he was imprisoned for his work. I read a few of his books when I was 19 or 20, and around the same age I also saw the Pasolini movie “120 Days of Sodom” which terrified my young and naïve mind. [Laughs]
Alison: Yeah, I was gonna ask about that as well. That’s a pretty gross movie, actually. [Laughs] I don’t know how closely it was based on what he wrote, though? Cause the entire setting was different, it was set around the Second World War, so…
Mimi: He says it’s not the tone or the “façade” that’s important.
Alison: Right – so that was what popped in to my head, was that movie. That was such a…ugh [disgusted expression].
Mimi: [Laughs] I know, I’m still affected by it when I think of it, 20 years later!
Alison: When he wrote the book…I did start to read it but I never got…[to the end]…what was the purpose to what he wrote? What was he trying to achieve by that? And where did that stuff come from, what inspired it?
Mimi: He’s saying “rebellion”…he’s calling himself an anarchist. Rebelling against society. Was he gay? I’m getting a gay or bisexual vibe. It was against religion.
Alison: He does feel bisexual.
Mimi: It would make sense too, yeah. He’s implying that his sexuality had a lot to do with it. But it was mainly to shock. He knew that it would be so shocking that he would probably be sentenced to death. He’s telling me he was fearless, and he’s very proud of that. I’m getting a lot of anger towards society. He says “hypocrisy.” Hypocrisy of the Church, hypocrisy of society…of what is pleasurable and what is not. If something is pleasurable, why would you want to shame people for doing it, or thinking about it? He says even thinking about these things was…you could be sentenced to death just for thinking. He used the word “anarchist,” so he considers himself an anarchist in that sense.
Alison: Right. Well I would agree with that, actually, that that’s a very good word to describe him! [Laughs]
Marquis de Sade: But a high society anarchist. Not someone who throws beer bottles, which is how you seem to define it today.
Alison: Not rock and roll anarchy. [Laughs] But at his level, how else could he have been an anarchist other than to write, I suppose.
Marquis de Sade: A purveyor of free speech.
Mimi: And he suffered for it.
Alison: Oh he did yeah…they probably actually were more lenient on him because he was high society, because if he had been a regular guy off the street writing that stuff, they would have just had him on the chopping block, I’m sure.
Mimi: Yes. Was he during Napoleon’s time? He’s talking about Napoleon.
Alison: Um…I’m not sure.
Mimi: He is saying that yes you are right, you are absolutely correct…but also…he hates Napoleon. [Laughs]
Alison: [Smiles] Right.
Marquis de Sade: In the same way you hate Donald Trump, I hated Napoleon.
Mimi: He says just like when you see Donald Trump and go “uuuuuugh”! Same thing. [Laughs]
Alison: [Checking online] So he was born in Paris in the 1700s, and he died in 1814, so no, Napoleon died before that I think. But let me just double check. I should remember from interviewing him.
Mimi: I’m definitely hearing “Napoleon.”
Alison: Oh yeah! Looks like they were in the same time period! Napoleon was born in 1769 and the Marquis de Sade was born in 1740, so…
Mimi: Yeah, that emotion was very strong against Napoleon. He had something against Napoleon.
Alison: Well of course, yeah. So I take it he didn’t like Napoleon’s takeover of France. [Laughs]
Alison: Yeah, so the Marquis would have been 29 when Napoleon was born, but Napoleon wasn’t born in France, I think he was born in Italy.
Mimi: Ok, I don’t know.
Alison: So…was it through family connections that they knew each other?
Mimi: No, he’s more linking it to his work. It feels like Napoleon had something against him personally, and his work. That’s the strong resentment I’m feeling from him.
Alison: Right. Many people did, but like I said, he was kind of afforded a much better break…
Mimi: Yes. He agreed with you on that.
Marquis de Sade: I had the privilege of being published because of my stature.
Mimi: But it feels like he was rebelling against that at the same time.
Alison: That’s actually interesting then: he’s obviously worked out before he came here what he was going to be, that he was going to be born into a gentry household. Did he come here with the soul purpose of being an anarchist, ruffling feathers and protesting…is that what he came here to be? Or did it just happen?
Mimi: No. He’s very proud of what he did and very happy that you’re saying he ruffled feathers, but there is more to it than just that.
Marquis de Sade: You are forgetting that I also brought in very valuable entertainment. I authored some very fine books.
Alison: Absolutely yeah. No doubts about that. What was it that prompted them to lock him up in a mental institution?
Mimi: The content of his work. He knew that he would probably be sentenced to death for it, he knew that came with it. He knew that was he doing was shocking. It’s still shocking today for some, he says, so can you imagine in the 1700s and 1800s? He says he was just fearless. He found a lot of pleasure in shocking people. And he is still referring to it all as “hypocrisy.”
Marquis de Sade: Why would I not want to write about what gives me pleasure? And why would I not want to give myself the pleasure of doing it? Or give myself pleasure while doing it? And why could you not find pleasure in reading it?
Mimi: He says most people find pleasure in his work. It’s the thrill of it. It creates reactions like, “Oh, I can’t believe he wrote THAT!” When he talks about it, he’s all smiles, he’s happy. But to answer your question as to why did they specifically put him in a mental hospital…
Marquis de Sade: Because someone who wrote such things had to be a deviant, a pervert, the Devil’s spawn. But aren’t we all!
Alison: [Laughs] Well yeah. Essentially we are, we all come from God, Source energy, whatever you want to call it, I suppose we’re all the same, if that’s what that innuendo is. We’re all the same. Light and dark, yeah.
Mimi: He says that train of thought wasn’t necessarily in him at the time, but it’s certainly in more people now than it was back then.
Alison: [Laughs] Yes! The other question I got is the movie that they made about him, the Australian actor that portrayed him in the movie, was that an accurate portrayal?
Marquis de Sade: No. I was much better looking.
Alison: [Laughs] Yes! Well the Australian actor who played him was not a good-looking man!
Marquis de Sade: I lived nearly 300 years before him, so it [his interpretation] had to come from his own spirit and inspiration. It was an interpretation of who I was.
Alison: [Laughs] Right, ok. So let’s start on the regular questions then. What do I call, him, by the way? Mr. De Sade, or Marquis…what?
Marquis de Sade: Call me “Monsieur.”
Alison: “Monsieur,” I like that. Ok, Monsieur. Describe your personality in one word?
Marquis de Sade: Unique.
Alison: Definitely unique, yes! [Laughs]
Mimi: He’s very proud that.
Marquis de Sade: Certainly not two people like me then, and never another one since.
Alison: Right. Oh here’s a good question for him then, because he was born after John Wilmot, the British playboy from that time period. Did he know of him and what did he think of him?
Mimi: He’s so funny!
Marquis de Sade: I also was much better looking than him!
Mimi: [Laughs] He knew of him, yes, but he’s kind of saying he wasn’t interested. He was much more interested in politics, scaring people [laughs]…and writing. He was very…what is the word, when you write and write…there’s a word for that that is just not coming through. But he wrote a lot, it feels like, and didn’t have time to take an interest in other authors.
Mimi: Prolific, yes! Thank you.
Alison: What was your greatest challenge?
Marquis de Sade: Politeness.
Alison: [Laughs] Right!
Mimi: He feels quite polite though, because he was high society, but I’m getting the feeling he could be very, very direct. He was just fearless, he says….he just said what he felt. If he felt someone was a hypocrite…hypocrisy is something that really got to him – and he says there were plenty of hypocrites around him then, and he doesn’t just mean on a moral scale, he’s mostly talking about politics. He’s calling Napoleon a hypocrite. He really had something against Napoleon!
Alison: [Laughs] Yeah, I can see that!
Mimi [to the Marquis]: What’s that about? [Pause] He’s funny, he’s just saying “oh, it’s a long and complicated story,” but he saw him as his enemy and he was against his politics. He felt like Napoleon’s target.
Alison: Right, well that would make sense that he would feel that way. Ok, so what was your greatest quality?
Mimi: Words. Communication. Honesty. He has a lot of pride about that.
Alison: How did he know what traits he needed to bring with him to live the life of the Marquis de Sade? Obviously, he needed to be creative and have the ability to write, but I mean, what else did he put in there?
Marquis de Sade: Fear-less-ness.
Mimi: He’s saying it like that to make a point. Fear-less-ness. This was the most important quality that he needed to have because everyone wanted him dead, everyone thought he was crazy,…he’s making me feel also as though there were death threats to his family…he was perceived as the devil.
Marquis de Sade: How could I not have strength and be fearless to fight against that?
Alison: Well that’s interesting, because when we interviewed Napoleon [Alison’s The Shiny Show], fearlessness was one of his major traits.
Mimi mimics two cars crashing together.
Alison: [Laughs] So we’ve got two fearless guys here.
Marquis de Sade: Oh, but he’s a wimp.
Alison: [Laughs] Well yeah, I dunno about that!
Marquis de Sade: He also lost.
Mimi: I don’t know if he’s talking about their own feud, or the Waterloo battle.
Alison: Well he lost that one, but there were other battles where he did win, so…alright let’s move on.
Marquis de Sade: Yes, move on!
Alison: [Laughs] Ok so what were you here to learn, Monsieur?
Mimi: Ooh, he likes that you called him that.
Marquis de Sade: Authenticity. Obviously, there is the authenticity of speaking my truth, but there is also the authenticity of knowing who I am.
Mimi: He’s showing me being incarcerated in an asylum.
Marquis de Sade: Imagine everyone telling you you are crazy, putting you in an asylum, injecting things into you, and being surrounded with others who are also told they are crazy, and this going on for years and years. At one point, you will begin to think and believe you are crazy.
Mimi: So the authenticity for him is mostly to never forget who he was, when everyone else was convinced he was something else. He was not insane.
Marquis de Sade: This is happening right now as well. There are many people who are being told they have schizophrenia when they do not.
Mimi: That’s interesting.
Alison: Yeah. I can believe that, actually, because normal society doesn’t recognize there’s an afterlife and when you start talking about it…especially if the person has got fear of what they’re experiencing. Alright so next question! What was his life purpose then? We’ve probably talked about that, but if he has anything to add…he said he was an anarchist.
Mimi: Yeah, and that’s what’s fascinating, because he’s actually saying it was mostly entertainment, because his work still lives on.
Marquis de Sade: The challenges that I experienced were in that life only. It was important that I live them and it was most definitely part of my purpose, but what remains of me is the work that I’ve done.
Mimi: So he’s putting that first.
Alison: That’s an interesting answer. So what is he most proud of?
Mimi: Ok…wow…that he didn’t commit suicide.
Alison: [Laughs] What is he least proud of then?
Mimi: [Laughs] He wants to add to that, he says it might sound odd, but again, it’s the anarchist in him. “They’re not gonna get me, I’m gonna live this life until the end.” He really felt…he was waiting for death, he really wanted to die, but he refused to cowardly do it, he says.
Marquis de Sade: I could not present the type of work that I did without knowing the reactions that it would create, and then step back and not own up to that.
Mimi: So he had to live his life until the end and suffer. Which is an interesting contrast for him. So he’s most proud of not dying! [Laughs]
Alison: Actually, I can understand that because if he had committed suicide, it would just have confirmed to everyone around him that he was stark raving bonkers, they would have just said, “Well there’s your evidence. He’s gone to Hell!”
Mimi: Yes! He’s making fun of me now because he’s saying, “oh she got that one!” He’s happy you caught that because that one didn’t come through for me. [Laughs]
Alison: [Laughs] Right, so let’s go to what he’s least proud of, then. Cause that was quite a big answer.
Marquis de Sade: There is absolutely nothing that I am not proud of.
Alison: Brilliant answer.
Marquis de Sade: I could not tell you I was fearless and then say things like [whiny voice]: “Well I didn’t like this about myself.”
Mimi: [Laughs] He owned it all.
Alison: So in that case his life review should have been a bit of a breeze! [Laughs]
Mimi: [Laughs] He’s so enjoying this interview, he’s laughing with us. He’s quite handsome, I’m just feeling this beautiful dandy energy next to me. It’s a very attractive energy. Ok, so what was his life review like…
Marquis de Sade: A charm.
Alison: A charm! Well there you go, I was right! It was a breeze, yeah. [Laughs]
Mimi: It was such a relief for him to die…such a relief to die…that’s a strong emotion. He saw that he instilled fear in people, but he also got to feel the joy…not a lot of people he says had a chance to read what he authored when he was alive, but he felt the ripple effects throughout the years, decades and centuries to come, of his work. He saw how important his work would become. He’s telling me that when he died he was “scum.” That’s the word he’s using, “scum.” And he saw that he would become a very renowned author, and that filled his heart with joy, because he finally died, he was at peace, and he finally could see the rewards of the pain that he endured.
Alison: What motivated him though to come and have that life, then?
Marquis de Sade: To serve.
Mimi: His answer has a bit of a “how could you not see that?” tone. [Laughs]
Marquis de Sade: It served humanity, it served a purpose, and that purpose was freedom of thought.
Mimi: Freedom of thought, more than freedom of speech.
Marquis de Sade: There are people still today who are in a context of war or government control, under some form or other of moral control, who are fearlessly writing blogs, fearlessly using Twitter, or fearlessly writing books. They too came here to fulfill a similar purpose. Until everyone on earth learns to stop trying to control other people’s thoughts, feelings and beliefs, martyrs like us will come and pave the way for freedom of thought.
Mimi: And he says there’s love in that…because I used the word “martyr”. He wants us to know people who come here such as him, come with a lot of love for humanity. It’s not a sacrifice.
Alison: Alright, what are his opinions on – [laughs] oh this will be a good one! – on spirituality before and after? I can’t wait for this answer!
Marquis de Sade: Well, as you know, I was rebelling against the Church.
Alison: Yeah the Church pretty much ruled everything, and those were the rules that were applied to society…
Mimi: Catholic? That’s what I just heard.
Alison: I’d imagine it would have been, in France, yes, probably. Cause they rebelled against the British who rebelled against the Catholic Church.
Marquis de Sade: You know how I love to shock, so I’m going to shock you now. I believed in God.
Alison: [Laughs] Well that doesn’t shock me, because it’s his version of God that we’re trying to get at.
Marquis de Sade: [faking disappointment] I just cannot shock anymore. Someone like me today would get five minutes of fame, then you would all go, “Oh, look at Miley Cyrus’ new video!”[Mimi and Alison laugh and laugh!]
Mimi: I just want to eat him up! He’s just so funny!
Alison: That is very funny, and very true!
Alison: Well, not for me cause I stand Miley! [Laughs] No offence Miley, but you’re not for me. No Kardashian butts on my TV, I’m afraid.
Marquis de Sade: Oh darling, there were plenty of Kardashians in my day as well.
Alison: [Laughs] Yes!
Mimi: He says those were the type of people he was rebelling against. The vulgarity of high society.
Marquis de Sade: I merely put into words thoughts that were morally equal to their actions, and it offended them.
Mimi: Ok, so God!
Marquis de Sade: I just did not see God as an entity that could have moral authority over me.
Mimi: So it’s not a “higher power”, he doesn’t like that term because it implies something more powerful or authoritative. He just knew in his heart…he had a lot of “knowing” feelings, he was very intuitive, he says. A good “flair.” He knew in his heart there was something more. But he says he separated Church and God; he saw Church as evil. And he saw, with his own eyes he says, the “evil doings” of the Church. He’s showing me Cardinals doing…oh God! [Laughs]
Marquis de Sade: A lot of my inspiration came from Church leaders.
Alison: Absolutely. Because they had this twisted notion that they were ordained by God therefore they could do whatever they wanted, that they were above the law. So a lot of reprehensible behavior.
Marquis de Sade: Today, you call them the Mafia.
Alison: [Laughs] Right well yeah, exactly!
Mimi: Ok, and after he passed…he’s just calling it joy, pure emotions of joy.
Marquis de Sade: There’s nothing to worry about.
Mimi: What do you know now though, Marquis?
Marquis de Sade: That your reputation does not follow you when you pass.
Mimi: Because he had a reputation then and still does now…you can still either perceive him – because the word “sadistic” comes from him – negatively or positively, but those perceptions don’t exist where he is, so he is at peace.
Alison: Good. Alright, so tell us about an experience that shaped your spirit, either here on earth or in the spirit world?
Mimi: I’ll just tell you what I’m seeing: there’s a huge, disgusting buffet of food, with one of those roasted pigs with the apple, and he’s sitting in front of that, like a banquet. It’s huge and fills up what looks like a reception hall. But he’s alone! [Laughs] All that food to himself. So what does that mean, why are you showing me this? [Pause] Gluttony.
Alison: Yeah, I was just gonna say, it’s excess.
Mimi: Yeah, but why – I’m trying to get the experience. It’s something he was fascinated with, obviously.
Alison: He wrote about gluttony, didn’t he?
Mimi: I’m sure he did. Mostly what I’m getting from that is that he experienced and saw these things. Everything he wrote about he saw, he says. It [excess] was just something that fascinated him. He says this still goes on today, the division of classes. People who have a lot of excess at the expense of the poor. Same thing as then, he says. So that shaped him, he says, because it really got to him, he was repelled by it.
Alison: Ok. And have you ever incarnated as something other than a human being?
Marquis de Sade: Of course!
Mimi: He always answers these questions with a surprised tone, like “obviously!” [Laughs] He’s showing me little butterflies. It’s just freedom.
Marquis de Sade: Just experiencing being very pretty and graceful, flying around without a care, until someone swaps you.
Alison: [Laughs] Right!
Mimi: [Laughs] He says I was smiling when I saw the butterfly, and that’s just it: butterflies bring a lot of joy to people.
Alison: Which is actually a total contrast for him.
Mimi: Oh yes! And choosing a life not as the “sadist” but an insect that’s gonna get whooped. And both lives are about seeking freedom. Got that, yeah.
Alison: Interesting, yeah. What is the greatest thing you created or manifested in the afterlife?
Mimi: He said “Love.” I find that a lot of spirits answer that, so I’m gonna ask him to give me something else.
Marquis de Sade: But that’s all we do!
Alison: [Laughs] That’s why you get that answer.
Mimi: He’s asking me to expand on the question. He says I’m gonna get that answer a lot because that’s all there is. [To Marquis] For yourself. “I would like this” then it manifests. [Pause] He’s just being silly now.
Marquis de Sade: An igloo.
Mimi: He says they are very beautiful, and he’d never seen snow. So he manifested an igloo. Pffft! [Laughs]
Alison: Right, ok! [Laughs] So he never got into the Highlands of France, or checked out…
Mimi:…Yes! He did! He just likes to add a surprise element and say the opposite of what we expect. That had zero shock value to it, but he likes going where you don’t expect him to go.
Alison: Well, I certainly wasn’t expecting “igloo”! [Laughs]
Mimi: He’s sitting us down now, he says [serious tone]: “Ladies.” He’s telling me I should just get rid of that question.
Marquis de Sade: You can manifest absolutely anything that you want, not just in the afterlife but where you are as well. So I could answer any frivolous thing, regardless of if it makes sense to you or not.
Alison: Well, it doesn’t matter that it makes sense or not, it’s about expanding our awareness. Creating an igloo certainly does that, because now we know we can create igloos in the afterlife! [Laughs]
Mimi: He’s quite argumentative.
Marquis de Sade: The most important thing for you to know is that you can also create many wonderful things in your own lives right now.
Mimi: …Oh…whatever! [Laughs]
Alison: Yes dad! [Laughs]
Marquis de Sade: Here is a flower for you.
Mimi: He’s giving us a flower. He’s just being cheeky.
Marquis de Sade: I’m not manifesting orgies, if that’s what you wanted to hear.
Alison: [Laughs] Right! So let’s see what the next question is here! What lessons are you learning in the afterlife, if any?
Mimi: [Laughs] Um…it’s not really a lesson, but he’s learning to paint. [To Marquis] Well, that’s something you’re manifesting! He says he’s learning to be more creative, with no boundaries. He’s enjoying that so much, because obviously, he had a life where he was limited and censored. So he’s truly enjoying that.
Alison: Right, so when he’s learning that in the afterlife, does he…cause I heard there are two ways of creating: there’s the old-fashioned way where you create the scene and you go about learning it as you would in 3D [here on earth], or you just download it so you know it. That’s what I heard, that there are two ways to go about it. Which one is he using?
Marquis de Sade: If you wish for me to expand your mind now, I will.
Marquis de Sade: Where I am, there is no such thing as only two ways of doing something.
Alison: [Laughs] Right, ok.
Marquis de Sade: Just think of other ways, and they will become possible. I do not need a paintbrush. I can simply think it and it will appear before me. The various ways we create go beyond your comprehension. It is limitless.
Alison: Right. I can understand that. So when he chooses to learn that, does he have a preference or does he mix it up?
Marquis de Sade: I’m not what you would call a “routine” person.
Mimi: [Laughs] He enjoys variety. It’s kind of like with Elvis now…he’s showing me things that I just can’t fully express. He’s showing me that you don’t just paint…he’s painting something and it comes to life, it becomes real.
Alison: Yeah, I’m actually seeing somebody – what looks like a conductor and an orchestra – but it’s visual art appearing, and it looks like it’s being conducted rather than painted.
Mimi: There you go! Oh he’s happy now. He wanted you to see that.
Marquis de Sade: That is another way. So you see, there are not just two ways. You must think outside the box.
Alison: That’s really interesting. So can he share a favorite memory from his life as the Marquis de Sade?
Mimi: Feels like…he had children. I see children.
Alison: I can look that up and tell you.
Mimi: There’s sadness there too, though. It’s a favorite memory, but the sadness is two-fold: being taken away from them, but also…
Alison: It’s not showing children….
Mimi: Oh, ok.
Alison: Yeah, I’m not seeing that he had any children.
Mimi: Ok. Well I’m going to trust what I got though. Perhaps not his, but there were children he was definitely close to.
Alison: Children he was missing, perhaps.
Mimi: Maybe. As a favorite memory though, I saw two children.
Alison: Right, ok. It could be nephews.
Mimi: Sure. But there is definite sadness there about being taken away from them, and also the shame, he says…well, he didn’t feel any shame, but other people made his…I’m gonna say his children, we’ll see for sure afterwards, but…it’s the shame of being related to him. I’m getting sadness from him on that. [Ed.: The Marquis had three children]
Alison: Alright. So what does he do now, does he have a special mission? Does he hang out?
Mimi: He says he’s very much enjoying this interview. It’s the first…[to Marquis] it’s the first time you’ve been channeled, really? He seems to say…well he’s not “called” often, at least. So he is enjoying this, it’s intriguing his curiosity. He is there when freedom of speech is an issue…um…ok wow. He sends strength to people who are here [living challenges relating to freedom of speech] and he works with them before they come here also, to help them prepare. There’s also sexual identity, helping out…I’m getting a strong bisexual or gay energy for him, definitely not heterosexual. So he helps…[to Marquis] how do you help? [Pause] Oh…Oh I see! So it’s not the LGBT movement per say, but oh…what is the acronym for it…
Mimi: Yes! BDSM, thank you! He’s showing me how there are people who will read his novels, find a lot of pleasure in them, and how that might open up something in them they didn’t know was there. Either they’ll accept that about themselves and explore BDSM, or they will force it to stay closed and not allow themselves the joy of adding that to their lives even though they want it. He’s so proud of that! Authenticity. He was all about authenticity and so he enjoys helping people come to terms with who they are – all of who they are. Speaking your truth.
Alison: Well even today, you can’t really walk around with a BDSM badge on your head.
Mimi: No, but he says it’s coming along. Especially here in the Western world, he says, it’s becoming more and more exposed or talked about in the media, but it’s a slow build. He’s giving it 40 or 50 years, until it becomes a fully acceptable thing.
Alison: Fair enough. And last question, do you have any messages for us, for society?
Mimi: Well he’s very chatty and proud, so I’m sure he does. [Laughs] He always does the opposite of what we expect.
Marquis de Sade: Just be yourselves.
Mimi: He’s just giving me a little bit. “Just be yourself.”
Marquis de Sade: I could give you a flow of words, but the essence would still remain “be yourself,” so that is all I need to say.
Alison: Fair enough, if you can say it in only two words, why use more.
Mimi: Yeah. I’d like to know what he thought of the Pasolini movie. Did we ask him that already?
Alison: Yeah, right at the beginning but we didn’t really go into it much.
Mimi: He says it doesn’t matter. As long as his work lives on. It’s the essence that matters to him. Obviously, that’s what he also just said now too, “Just be yourself.” The fluff doesn’t matter. I have a question about the term “sadistic” for him. It’s a very negative term, and it comes from him, so I’d like to get his thoughts on that.
Alison: It’s dark, isn’t it? A dark word.
Mimi: Yes. He says it’s unfortunate that we should use it in a judgmental way, but he understands.
Marquis de Sade: You shouldn’t be too hard on yourselves, because it’s the natural human way to think in terms of “this is ok and this is bad,” or “that’s sadistic and that’s something else.” You need contrasts to survive and understand things. It is just rather unfortunate that it should be attached to my name!
Mimi: [Laughs] But he’s owning it, he says, it’s ok. I want him to talk about sadism, though.
Marquis de Sade: I was subject to what you call sadism myself.
Mimi: He’s showing me when he was incarcerated…he was tortured. Ugh…yeah.
Alison: Did they try and use shock treatment to make him better?
Mimi: I’m not seeing that, it’s more like fluids, putting stuff in his veins. He’s also tied up, like they used to do in these places. But they also hurt him, physically hurt him. I’m hearing things like “Is this the kind of stuff you like?” They were giving him what he was writing about.
Marquis de Sade: That is exactly the hypocrisy I was talking about. If you can do that to me, find pleasure in it – as they did – while still not seeing the irony…
Alison: Yeah, it’s more “do as I say, not as I do,” the hypocrisy that he’s talking about.
Marquis de Sade: Incarcerating someone who simply wrote down thoughts, and you acting out the thoughts on the person you are accusing of thinking them up.
Mimi: Projecting that sadism on someone else. He says that’s forgiven though, it’s ok. But there’s a little bit of contempt or condescension with that from him, though. He’s seeing them as stupid for not figuring out the irony.
Marquis de Sade: I know you want me say sadism is bad or is something negative…
Mimi: Not necessarily…
Marquis de Sade: …but I will not do that because everything has its place, everything has its reason, and everything has its contrast. If you look at my work, you will see that I was very much into the contrasts. I needed to explore in honest ways the experiences I was putting out on paper, and you needed to be aware that these things existed in everyone’s thoughts and minds. I was simply putting them out in words. You cannot know pleasure without pain, and so, for every masochist, there is a sadist. And that is perfect. And every sadist finds its masochist.
Mimi: So everything is perfect, everything is love.
Marquis de Sade: Just be yourself. Find your pleasure, and find your pain.
Mimi: Merci, Marquis!
Mimi had more questions for the Marquis the next day, so she rang up Alison to continue the interview. Alison channeled the Marquis de Sade this time.
Mimi: Is he here, do we need to invite him? I invited him a few hours ago, but are you feeling him here now?
Alison: No, not really. I can’t feel him, no.
Mimi: Ok, let me invite him back.
Mimi sets an intention out to the Marquis to join them again.
Alison: He’s coming in now.
Mimi: Yes. [Laughs] He’s happy.
Alison: He’s quite amused by us.
Marquis de Sade: Of course you want more of me!
Alison: [Laughs] Very cheeky!
Mimi: Ok, he was very sexually free, but it’s freedom taken to an extreme. So I’d like him to talk to us about sexual consent. What does he have to say about that?
Alison: Right. Let’s see if I can get him more strongly, then. Cause I don’t think he knew who was going to channel him. [Laughs] Right, sexual consent…
Mimi: [Laughs] He just said, “switching partners!” He’s liking it.
Alison: [Laughs] Right, and I do feel that had a sexual connotation as well.
Mimi: Oh, it did!
Alison: Because what he’s showing me is orgies. There was a lot of sexual freedom and I can see just lots of bodies. [Laughs] It’s like he’s showing me an old photograph, an old etching, where there’s lots of bodies and petticoats flying around. There was plenty of that going around.
Mimi: Ok, so he’s basically saying that for people who were there, that there was consent.
Mimi: Ok. He was a libertine but it has been said that he was also kind of nasty. Part of his philosophy was “If I want it, I can have it, because it gives me pleasure,” regardless of how the other party feels about it. And I understand that was part of the times too, when women didn’t have many rights, but I’d just like his take on that.
Alison: Right. He’s indicating that that was with prostitution. He had that attitude with prostitutes because he was paying for it. But the scene he’s showing me, it’s not a close up, it’s very tiny, and there is one woman in the middle with a bunch of men around her, which may be indicative of what you were just saying. She’s wearing a pink dress, but there’s a bunch of men around her leering all over her. He’s not saying whether it was consensual or not, but the word prostitution comes in very clearly.
Mimi: Ok, but what is his opinion about consent? Since his philosophy was extreme sexual freedom.
Alison: He says you must have it in some form or another, and with prostitution you have it because it’s a transaction.
Mimi: Yeah…I’m not buying that. And it doesn’t mean you are allowed to be cruel. I’m not sure I want to have that argument with him!
Alison: He’s smiling and he’s…[laughs] he’s a cunning one.
Marquis de Sade: You are a modern woman attempting to ask a modern question of a non-modern era, and getting a non-modern man to answer it and not liking it!
Mimi: [Laughs] I know, but the reason I’m asking someone from the 1700s about sexual consent is because his work still has an effect on us today, it is used as a reference. So I want him to tell us what his consciousness or higher self, whatever you want to call it, has to tell us about sexual consent.
Alison: I’m glad you switched that because the Marquis de Sade is not going to give you any other answer than what he’s given you. [Laughs] As the Marquis, at that time in that place, that was his position.
Mimi: Yes. That’s why I said I didn’t want to have that argument with him. I got that! [Laughs]
Alison: In the higher sense…he says this situation becomes purposeful. It becomes a situation where people learn what’s right or wrong from something they’re participating in. So, he’s showing you that there is a lesson in the attitude that he and the other men had at the time, and the lesson is that we’re all equal and we’re all deserving of equal rights. But until you take away those rights, how do you know what those rights really are, the value of them? So, he’s actually calling himself a feminist. [Laughs]
Mimi: Well he is regarded as one, with certain scholars, yeah. Ok, can he tell us about mental issues and how they relate to sexual behavior? Does he feel that he had any of those?
Alison: He’s saying he had no filters when it came to sex. No filters whatsoever. He could not understand filters, he could not understand the position that sex was in some way offensive or unnatural or evil. It was a pure function of the body and it just happened to feel good as well. So he could not reconcile his own openness to sex with these ideas that sex was in some way bad or evil or promoting the devil! [Laughs]
Mimi: I agree!
Marquis de Sade: It’s ridiculous! Animals having sex, are they promoting the devil? No, they’re not. We’re all animals, we’re all the same thing, we’re all here to procreate, and if it feels good, do it. [Pause] On the basis of your question: as long as it’s consensual!
Mimi: [Laughs] I was gonna add it, but I was waiting for it! Glad he caught that thought. Merci, Herr Marquis!
Alison: [Laughs] He likes teasing you.
Mimi: Well I like being teased by the Marquis de Sade. It’s quite an experience. So he’s not going to like my next question: Was he a sexual offender? [Laughs]
Marquis de Sade: [cheeky tone] Oh, absolutely!
Mimi: [Laughs] I don’t know why I even bothered asking!
Alison: [Laughs] By his own standards yes, but then he says he affected everybody by being so sexually opened, and by his words.
Mimi: So did he consciously see his novels as philosophical or as having any philosophical worth when he was writing them, or were they just outlets for writing about his own sexual experiences, for his own pleasure?
Alison: He’s saying that he thoroughly enjoyed sticking it in the face of authorities. He just wanted to shove it in their faces! [Laughs] And the more obscene it could be, the more he enjoyed what it did to authority, to confront it in that way, because they were so hypocritical.
Mimi: There’s that word again.
Marquis de Sade: Do you think they weren’t doing these things themselves? They WERE doing them! They were doing more heinous things to people than anyone could possibly imagine.
Alison: He’s talking about torture.
Marquis de Sade: Let’s take torture, for example. If you as an individual went out in the streets and bashed somebody, for whatever reason, or you became embroiled in a treason or pursuit, don’t think for one minute that your rights made a difference to the person that was putting thumb screws on you to get you to say what they wanted you to say. That is hypocrisy!
Mimi: [Laughs] Getting the Marquis de Sade all riled up!
Alison: Oh yeah. He’s actually bringing up Guantanamo Bay now as a modern example of hypocrisy. Yeah. The Americans have…and I apologize to my American friends, it’s not them he’s talking about, it’s the authorities.
Marquis de Sade: The American authorities have marshaled around the world all these freedoms, all this political correctness – you can’t do this to people and you can’t do that to people – yet they are busily setting up these organizations in countries where these rights do not exist so that they can violate the rights they purport should exist, and that they support openly. Hypocrisy!
Alison: [Laughs] That’s not gonna piss anybody off! [Laughs] He’s a political activist, that’s what he is.
Mimi: I’m getting a strong feeling that he has incarnated a few times as an activist as well – it’s just part of his personality and ongoing purpose, it feels like. I’m seeing an image of a young man in a riot wearing a mask and throwing rocks at a police squad. Very modern image, feels like it’s right now. Just a lot of lives revolving around anarchy, activism, being very opinionated, fighting “the man” and ending in imprisonment. I have a strong feeling that part of the challenges all these lives come with is alienating others around him. It’s like he can’t get past that.
Alison: He hates Guantanamo Bay, by the way. Absolutely hates it.
Mimi: Sounds personal.
Alison: Yeah, the thought I’m getting from him is “absolute disgust.” It’s no different than all the stuff that’s happening in his day.
Mimi: Yeah, and he gets easily riled up!
Alison: Yeah, passionate.
Mimi: Is there a lack of healing involved in that, or is that just part of his personality?
Alison: No, it’s just who he is.
Mimi: And he needs to be that way to fulfill the lives he chooses. Got it.
Alison: Yeah. He doesn’t need healing he says. There’s nothing to heal. The world is what needs healing, not him.
Mimi: Aw. Yes and people like him come and help us do just that. Ok – what does he have to say about how desensitized we are today about sex in general, pornography, rape culture and all that?
Marquis de Sade: We are not desensitized, we are still battling religious ideas about women that are false. Women not being able to wear whatever they want because it’s an invitation to be raped is ridiculous. A woman should be entitled to walk down the street in modest clothing and not have that attention brought on herself. Your clothing does not speak your permission. We are still battling ancient ideas and opinions about women.
Alison: Ok…I don’t know if you’ll want to put this in, but he’s moving on to women in Muslim cultures. Women who are covered from head to toe.
Mimi: I don’t want to censor him, so go ahead.
Marquis de Sade: What does that actually do? It gives the impression that an entire woman’s existence is a permission to be abused, which again is fighting religious opinions.
Alison: So there you go. He’s full on.
Mimi: Ok, yeah. I wasn’t expecting him to go there. The reason I was asking that is because today obviously, what he wrote would not be that offensive anymore, or barely. We are constantly subject to things like that.
Alison: No he still says it’s not being desensitized, it’s fighting what is already there. And he’s absolutely tracing back this problem to ancient times, it’s never gone away, it just comes in different forms – and to say today that we’re desensitized is rubbish, he says, because those beliefs [about women] have always been there and are still here.
Mimi: Ok, thank you Marquis. I’m satisfied with that. Perhaps we should ask him about his childhood. Was there an experience in his childhood that made him the way he was?
Alison: He’s calling his childhood mediocre.
Mimi: Ok, why was it mediocre?
Alison: Well mediocre as in “regular.”
Mimi: Ok. I’m gonna start referring to my childhood as “mediocre” now then. [Laughs]
Alison: The relationship with his mother seems quite interesting. He’s giving me the impression it was a modern mother with a gay son, type of relationship. She was always his mother, no matter what. She never considered him grown up to be a man, he was always a boy.
Mimi: Right, ok. So he’s telling us that because it had an influence on his behavior?
Alison: It feels like he didn’t really appreciate that kind of attention. That’s what it feels like to me anyway. But yeah, “mediocre.” Very boring. Nothing standing out. No abuse. Just an overdose of mother.
Mimi: Well, I wasn’t necessarily looking for “abuse” or anything like that, but how does one in the 1700s become so openly fearless and sexual like the Marquis de Sade? Or want to be so shocking?
Alison: He’s showing me that he was a bit of a strange child, he’s showing me pulling the hair out of a doll. He’s just yanking the hair out of it. [Laughs] Feels like a frustrated adult in a child’s body trying to find an outlet for that frustration.
Mimi: Ok. Was he ADHD? Poor little Marquis. [Laughs]
Marquis de Sade: Obsessive Compulsive.
Mimi: Aaah! [Laughs]
Alison: And there was no outlet for him as a child, it was only when he got older that he was able to use the written word as an outlet for what was in his head. But…there’s something about the mother that he keeps bringing me back to. Overbearing. Driving him crackers. The kind of mother that wets her hanky in public and wipes your face in front of all your friends [Laughs]. Annoying, she was annoying. So he had mummy issues.
Mimi: Well you know what they say, men who mistreat women or who have bad relationships with women, or prostitutes…you want to see what their relationship with their mother was like.
Alison: There are definitely discordant feelings towards his mom. He’s not letting me get passed this mediocrity and her being overbearing and irritating…who never let him grow up, who never released him into manhood.
Mimi: He’s trying to tell us he was spoiled, is what it is. He’s coming through to me with that one now. That’s where his feelings of entitlement came from. “I want this and I want that and why I can’t I have that if that’s what I want?”
Alison: I think you might be right. Yeah.
Mimi: So he was just a big baby.
Alison: Big smile on that one.
Marquis de Sade: YES!
Mimi: I think we just solved a 300-year old enigma!
LOOKING FOR SOMETHING?
- Wendy O. Williams ∙ Vampira ∙ Type O Negative ∙ Tupac ∙ Toulouse Lautrec ∙ The Cramps ∙ Sister Rosetta Tharpe ∙ Sid Vicious ∙ Sex Pistols ∙ Serge Gainsbourg ∙ Satan ∙ Rasputin ∙ Prince ∙ Peter Steele ∙ Peter Cook ∙ Pablo Picasso ∙ Pablo Escobar ∙ Oliver Reed ∙ Myra Hindley ∙ Muhammad Ali ∙ Motorhead ∙ Marquis de Sade ∙ Marie-Antoinette ∙ Malcom X ∙ Maila Nurmi ∙ Lux Interior ∙ Leonard Nimoy ∙ Lemmy ∙ Lee Hazlewood ∙ Layne Staley ∙ Keith Moon ∙ Joey Ramone ∙ Joe Strummer ∙ Jeff Buckley ∙ Huey P. Newton ∙ Harvey Milk ∙ GG Allin ∙ George Carlin ∙ Frida Kahlo ∙ Freddie Mercury ∙ Elvis Presley ∙ Edith Piaf ∙ Edgar Allan Poe ∙ Divine ∙ David Bowie ∙ Charlie Chaplin ∙ Buster Keaton ∙ Bob Ross ∙ Bob Marley ∙ Black Panther Party ∙ Bill Hicks ∙ Anton LaVey ∙ Amelia Earhart ∙ Al Capone ∙ Albert Einstein ∙ Alan Rickman